Saturday, May 23, 2020

State Of The #SHEA: Now That They Found Love, Part 1


Now that we found love what are we gonna do with it?

            -The O’Jays (and much later, Heavy D and The Boyz)




It took three TV seasons to do it, but TGD’s Dr. Shaun Murphy and Ms. Lea Dilallo are finally, FINALLY braving love’s journey together starting with Season 4 (when and how that happens is another story entirely; we’ll probably discuss that later, when plans get more concrete in nature).

So the question is no longer “Will they…?” or “For the love of God, WHEN will they…?”, but “Now what?”

At least, hypothetically, it’s “the” question. Some #Shea fans have plates full of ideas to bring to the table already and are past asking that. (Some of them/you have shared said ideas in the comments section of this blog, and you might see those comments in the blog posts… ‘cause y’all are smart and cool and all those good things.)

So I read through those comments (and other resources) and am working on a master “plate” of ideas for Shaun and Lea’s future. And as with the SOS Playlist choices, I’ve broken it down into some categories…

This installment (Part 1) considers some possibilities I’m simply breaking out into THE GOOD and THE BAD.

THE GOOD= things that count as lighter dilemmas & challenges; issues that are able to be resolved in some manner in an episode or two

THE BAD= deeper-rooted situations that have make-or-break potential, though obviously the hope is that Shaun and Lea now have a foundation to withstand such root “damage”

Note: I’m not looking at Shaun/Lea’s progress with the same eyes as the Shaun/Carly progress last season. The main reason for that may seem obvious to #Shea fans, but to keep it simple (and in the paraphrased words of David Shore), it was about “firsts” with Carly: first dates, first arguments, first make-ups, first physical encounters, first time someone called Shaun “her boyfriend”, etc. With Lea, Shore has already said it will be about navigating a relationship. So I’m not including that laundry list of “firsts” on the #Shea to-do list because, frankly, they’ve already done most of those in one way or another. (Except the obvious “first”, which I’m saving to discuss in another post. Don’t @ me for that, as the kids say. It’s a long hiatus we’re dealing with.)




The good…

Romantic gestures

We didn’t witness it much during the Shaun/Carly relationship (except for the flowers & chocolates he didn’t give her at the very beginning, and the “I’d like to have sex tonight, would you?” flowers that he DID). But with Lea, Shaun now has the ability to move past his previous efforts with her (in-house karaoke, and “don’t forget about the donut”) and go as big…or as little… as he likes. He’s already won her heart, so it will be interesting to see A) what Shaun wants (or feels like he needs) to do to honor his new girlfriend, B) what Lea might want to do along the same lines, and C) how each reacts to the other’s efforts (or lack thereof).

Shaun is now in a position of prosperity. Just as we can see who someone is when things are down, it's equally important to see how Shaun handles things when so much is going his way: career stability, newfound relationship with the love of his life; supportive colleagues…

Interestingly, it could very well be Lea who's in "prove it" mode to Shaun. Especially if he starts hearing less-than-flattering comments about his new relationship from some of the others (*cough* MORGAN *cough*).—TONY

Will there be a formal “first date” that we see? I’m not sure—seems like it would depend on whether or not the writers want to compare such an experience to his first one, and I wonder if they feel that’s necessary (especially since Shore has said this “won’t be about firsts”). Personally, I think it could be fun to see, especially if it shows Shaun more at-ease than he was a year ago at that point. What might be more fun is if Shaun and Lea mutually agreed to do something “fancy” and then mutually agreed to bail midway through and go someplace more casual. Or… get their fancy dinner “to go” and head back to the Chateau de Shaun*.

OR, they could skip all this and head to Excite Ballpark for a San Jose Giants home game! (Yes, baseball fans, I had to look that up.)

Maybe the bigger question is… will Shaun continue to seek romantic advice from his fellow BV-ites? (I mean, it’s worked out so well for him in the past, right??)

I do wonder if we'll see Shaun asking the others for advice as much as he did when he was with Carly, because he knows Lea much better than the rest of them do. And Morgan, especially, has pre-conceived ideas about Lea that I wouldn't mind seeing Lea disprove (which is my way of admitting that I have the feeling I'll be yelling at the TV again in season 4, as I did in season 3, "Lea is NOT a flake, Morgan!")—Amy Danko

Or maybe he’d do better studying an article like this if he needs ideas?

Either way, I’d like to see Shaun make some effort in this arena. We’re likely to see him struggle here and there, but hey, he’s wanted this for a LONG time (even when he didn’t know he wanted it). Now that he’s got “this,” he may need to leave his comfort zone behind now and again.

I also think it would be stellar to see Lea take the lead on some dates. We know she’s likely mastered the bar/concert scene, but how about a visible downshift into something they can both enjoy?
  
(*Speaking of the Chateau de Shaun…)


To move Lea back in to the apartment or not move Lea back in?



The answer to this question (at least, for me) is simple: HELL TO THE NO. They’ve already lived together; they know how to make that work. They’re just starting on the “relationship” part; to even attempt to do so while housed under the same roof sounds like DISASTER: THE SEQUEL.

I don’t expect Shaun to get this. I kind of anticipate him fully anticipating Lea’s homecoming. In fact, I wouldn’t be shocked if this becomes an early obstacle that gets resolved by some top-level reasoning on Lea’s part. And if it happened to conclude with something along the lines of “the next time we live together, I want it to be for keeps”… hey, I wouldn’t be mad.



Getting Glassy’s blessing


Do Shaun and Lea need Dr. Glassman to approve their coupledom? No. Might they already have his approval? Probably (even if he doesn’t show it yet the next time we see him). But Shaun and Glassman will likely have other issues in season 4 that could put them at odds with each other, such as if and how Shaun should try for Chief Resident (one of those things readers have brought up in the Comments). And while a full-on Grumpy Glassy take on Shaun and Lea feels a little been there/done that by now, there’s plenty of room to play with that dynamic…

*  Shaun might skip the BV-ite advice for romance, but still come to Glassman for it. Or better yet, Lea could do the same. And even Glassman’s advice could turn out to be wrong, which would provide interesting results.

I'd like to see Shaun and Lea figure out their relationship themselves, without a lot of input from the other Bonaventurites, with the exception of Glassman, since he knows them both. And if they want to give Debbie a bigger role, I'm totally in favor of that. (Car chicks unite!)—Amy Danko

*  Shaun and Lea could double-date with the Glassmans at least once (something I know has been suggested by Amy, and probably others). I’ll say it here, and probably many other places in the future… Lea and Debbie are a sisterhood just waiting to happen.

*  If Shaun starts coming to Lea’s workspace a little more often than he should (mini-makeout sessions, anyone?), Glassy could be required to set the kids down, perhaps directly between them 😉, and have a fatherly-yet-fully-professional chat with them.

So, you see, the potential for conflict abounds even if there is no glaring involved. (Whew.)


The bad…


Meeting Lea’s family  



Now that she’s on the same romantic page as Shaun, I don’t know if there’s any one thing that Lea Dilallo fans want more than details on what makes her tick—and, by way of that, getting acquainted with some other Dilallos.

We’ve had dribs and drabs to work with thus far: a grandfather she adored, an immediate family she’s described negatively, a brother (Donnie) that contributed, as did she, to the “tanking” of the family business (“and our relationship”). And, of course, we know she hails from Hershey, PA.

Originally I thought about one family member—Lea’s mom, maybe—coming out to San Jose for a visit and driving Lea crazy in the process. But when Andreas noted that there has been one road/out-of-town trip per season of TGD thus far (1.11 and 1.12 “Islands”, 2.14 “Faces”, and 3.10 “Friends and Family”,), I got to wishing and hoping that Destination: Hershey is on the S4 canvas. Home for the holidays, maybe…?

Because we’ve only got those drips and drabs to work with, opportunities abound with Lea bringing Shaun home to meet her family. If there’s wackiness, I want to see how Shaun contends with it. If there is unfinished business, particularly with regards to Lea’s relationship with her brother, I want to see what role Shaun might play (either as a problem-solver, a supportive partner, or both).

But mostly, I want to see if Shaun can mirror at least some of the attentiveness that Lea provided him when they went to Casper last season. A trip to Hershey could help mend some fences for Lea, but it could just as easily rip her open to more vulnerability than she ever bargained for. How would Shaun react in her time of need? And how much would it ultimately help her?

It could be another defining moment in their story. I REALLY hope TGD writers think so, too.


Lea’s aggravation as Shaun’s work overshadows their plans/conversations



We’ve seen it before with them—Lea starts talking about something from her side of life, and Shaun cuts her off by launching into his own train of thought, de-valuing her contribution in the process. Lea’s trying to make a point; Shaun abruptly “has to go” and the conversation is left unfinished and unresolved.

And NOW it could be more like Lea throwing her day upside down in order to plan a special dinner for the two of them…just to have Shaun sit at the table with a medical journal in hand, barely acknowledging her. Or he might get caught up in the Case of the Week at St. B, and not make it to dinner at all.

Or they have returned from Destination: Hershey but she’s still dealing with aftermath from the trip… and now that Shaun is back in work mode, she finds it nearly impossible to talk to him the way she needs to.

Part of this could be the struggles of loving a thoroughly overworked young doctor, and a bigger part of it could be those complications of loving someone with ASD that Lea wrestled with in the past. I sense it’ll take a delicate dance to keep things progressing on this matter—so much so that I don’t know if it’s the kind of thing they could simply “get right”.


Shaun makes errors at work, and unwittingly blames Lea and/or some element of the relationship



This one makes me anxious just thinking about it.

Perhaps Shaun leaves something important at Lea’s desk, and she discards it by mistake. Or, he’s got her on his mind (in a good way) when he misplaces something entirely, causing her to be on his mind again (in a not-so-good way). Or she forgets to pass along an essential piece of information, which both causes Shaun some anguish and reinforces Lea’s “flaky” reputation at a time when she needs it the least.

Or a disagreement between the two of them distracts him enough during surgery to make a bad judgment call—or prompts a more difficult than usual face-to-face with the patient’s family—causing Shaun to question his ability to be the best doctor he can while also struggling with the love of his life.

Look, I’m really not trying to think of ways to mess them up—if the long-term plan for TGD is to keep these two together (as I hope is the case), I’m confident they will build this relationship solidly.

(Honestly, they took #Shea to hell and back (waaaay back!) in the span of about four episodes. I think they’re more than ready—and capable—of telling the next chapters of this story.)

But as worst-case scenarios go, there’s plenty to choose from if the show chooses the road-more-rocky. Something small and insignificant could turn into something bigger and deeper in a hurry—seems the ideal conflict for an hour-long medical drama with overlapping personal story arcs, no?

And as I said at the start, there are plenty of ideas to go around… and I’ll dive into another round of ‘em soon. Got something to say about these, or want to share your own take on Season 4 storylines for Shaun and Lea? Please hit up the comments!

32 comments:

Amy D said...

I agree that they might not make a big deal out of Shaun and Lea's first official date, but whether or not they do, I'm confident in saying that Shaun won't feel like it's a disaster, the way he felt about his first date with Carly. And since David Shore himself said that #Shea will be navigating a romantic relationship instead of hitting all the firsts (which, as you pointed out, they've done a lot of them already), I can see things playing out very differently than they did with Shaun and Carly.

I also do NOT want Lea moving back into the apartment, and that could very well be their first real fight as a couple. (Paging Glassy...and Debbie, dare we hope?) But I too would LOVE IT if Lea would say she's not moving in with Shaun again until it's for keeps. As in engaged/married. But there's no need to rush!

With the exception of Glassman, because he knows them both, I think Shaun would be better off NOT asking his fellow Bonaventurites for relationship advice as much as he did when he was with Carly. Because to be honest, Carly really didn't give Shaun a whole lot to go on most of the time, which is WHY he was always asking them for advice. But Shaun knows Lea better than everybody else does, including Glassman, and Shaun learning to effectively communicate with Lea would have big rewards for him not just personally but in his professional life as well, because at some point, pretty much everyone he works for and with has had something to say about Shaun's lack in effectively communicating with patients, and of course we all remember his first lead surgery, the 45-degree angle for the instruments being handed to him that he never actually explained to the nurse so she filed a complaint against him and Lim had to use some tough love to make Shaun understand why he was in the wrong there. But Shaun learning to be a better communicator with Lea could carry over into his professional life as well, which could only be a benefit for Shaun and his patients.

I would LOVE to see at least one of Lea's family members in season 4, and Shaun meeting them. In fact, I REALLY want to see Shaun comforting Lea...maybe not exactly the way she comforted him at the end of "Friends & Family," although you'd likely be able to hear me cheering if he did, but I would at least like to see him console her like he consoled Carly when they were struggling to find the answer in "Mutations," if not better than that. Actually, I want to see him hug Lea like he hugged Glassman in "More" and "Fractured." Whether that has to do with comforting her or not isn't as important to me as him doing it, but I definitely want to see Shaun comforting Lea over some kind of upset or pain next season, and her family is a logical hot button for that to be the case.

There are endless possibilities (you're all probably tired of me saying that, but it's true!) for Shea now that they're embarking on official couplehood. I know it won't be all roses and sunshine, but they've proved that they can have the most painful fights and work things out afterward. Now they're on a new level. And I'm rooting with everything in me for Shea to be endgame.

Andreas said...

Great thoughts! I would like to emphasize the still to improve communication between these two. Shaun’s lack of reciprocity is something we probably will see happen again, but I hope the writers decide to show a process of improvement here.

But there’s one thing I really need your help to understand: what is the problem with Lea moving back in? It may very well be me having autism too, but I still don’t get what the problem with that would be?

In my simple logic this would be the easiest part because they know each other so well already. So, what are the neurotypical concerns with that? Please, I need your advice with that! ;)

Tony said...

You were right to include the possibilities - both good and bad. We're happy, we're hopeful, but we're NOT naive! One of my very first comments on this blog series was a compliment on the big-picture thinking of Shaun & Lea fans. This goes right in-line with it!

Even during those times where it seemed Shaun was inattentive (the ice cream headache, for instance), he did prove later on just how much he cared and in fact WAS listening (by urging Glassman to give Lea the interview). Lea worded it perfectly in "Hubert", when referring to Shaun: Daddy just shows his love in a different way.

My questions moving forward are: (1) in the heat of the moment, can Lea not FORGET about Shaun's "different way"? And (2) can Shaun adjust just enough to where "his" was is closer to what Lea is looking for in the moment?

Amy hits on some good points about something like hugs and comforting. For me, those moments with Carly (and even the Glassman hugs) really should be the low-bar moving forward. Honestly, I'd be disappointed if Shaun DIDN'T do something for Lea that left us even more impressed with him afterwards!

On a separate but related note (one that ties into Kelli's post), I understand the need for TV censors, but I hope they either (a) use a different ephamism than "parade", or (b) just mention that they were both VERY satisfied. This relationship is different; it's special; no need to tie it into other relationships (which may even prove to be a plot point or early issue between Shaun & Lea).

And Andreas, I won't speak for the others, but my reasons for not rushing Lea back into the apartment are twofold. One: this new relationship is a pretty big adjustment in and of itself. Changing too many dynamics too quickly could be an issue for any new couple. I don't necessarily (or at least primarily) think it's an autism thing. And two: from a production/narrative standpoint, the show can afford to take its time. Since Lea is in THE relationship with Shaun and now works in the hospital, she doesn't need to live with Shaun in order for us to see her.

Lastly, I'll echo the desires to see another Dilallo! I'm not as picky about whether they're coming west, or Lea & Shaun are going east. But tying into the point above, with Lea now WITH Shaun, it'll be easier to give her some character-building while still allowing the show to be about Shaun. A "Claire"-like episode isn't necessary. I'll take an approach like "Sex and Death" did with Morgan's family (except for Lea actually being in this episode!) and be perfectly happy.

Amy D said...

Tony, that's one of my favorite Shea episodes. And yes, Daddy DOES show his love in a different way. I totally agree with you that Lea needs to remember that. I expect that her forgetting it or not realizing it will happen at least once or twice when she and Shaun have an argument, but Shaun has proved multiple times in the past that he DOES show his love in a different way, and even when it seems like he's not listening in the moment or thinking of Lea, he actually is: having Hubert autopsied; giving her breakfast before their argument when she came back from Hershey; renting the apartment she loved when she couldn't afford it on her own; getting her the interview with Glassman for the job at the hospital after they met for lunch. Shaun has a comfort level with Lea that he never experienced with Carly, and by his own admission, he loves Lea more than he loved Carly, so hopefully he will be able to show that love to Lea in his own unique way. I rewatched the scene where Shaun first told Lea he loves her and wants to be her boyfriend this week, and I noticed that he had cleaned up the entire apartment and had candles burning on a few different surfaces and white twinkle lights strung outside on the patio.

I agree completely with everything you said about why Lea doesn't need to move back into the apartment. There's no rush, and the change in their relationship is a big enough adjustment for both of them to make. And now that Shea are an official couple, and both working at the hospital, they don't have to live together for us to see Lea.

I also agree they need a different euphemism than "parade." Of course, I also think that Shaun will want to make sure Lea is satisfied, and I don't for one second believe that she would tell him that he needed to figure out on his own how to satisfy her the way Carly did. And yes, this relationship is different and very special and doesn't need to be tied to or compared to any other relationships of the past on the part of either of them.

And something like "Sex and Death" with Morgan's family but with Lea and her family instead would be AWESOME! Not that one of Lea's relatives needs to be a patient at St. Bonaventure, necessarily, but something where we meet at least one other member of her family, and Shaun is there for her during the difficulties she has with said family member.

Finally, I'm totally in favor of Shaun raising the bar when it comes to comforting Lea vs. comforting Carly and hugging Glassman. The last scene of "I Love You," when he initiated the third kiss and pulled her in close to him with his arms wrapped firmly around her is proof that he's comfortable enough and unself-conscious enough to be physically affectionate with Lea. I would really love to see Shaun and Lea lying in bed together talking, or snuggled up on the couch to watch TV with Lea's head resting on Shaun's shoulder and his arm around her. And we know from the karaoke scene in "Unsaid" that it is, in fact, possible for Shaun and Lea to get so wrapped up in each other that they ignore the rest of the world around them. So I do hope we get to see that at least a few times.

Kelli Lawrence said...

Andreas, my thoughts about Lea and Shaun living apart are half-rooted in dynamics, and half-rooted in what I feel works best for couples who have marriage potential.

I've lived with a boyfriend without marrying him, and I've also been married 22 years withOUT having lived with my husband before marriage... which is my roundabout way of saying I'm not against couples living together before "making it official". It's not about that.

The dynamics are totally different now-- that's what Amy and Tony were talking about. When they were platonic, Shaun and Lea's expectations were not what they're likely to be now that love is out in the open. I think the new challenges are something with which they'll succeed, but dealing with them via dates, dinners, quiet moments at the hospital, etc. is not the same as doing all that AND sharing a living space 24/7. It's just too much, too soon in my opinion. (And to be clear, this isn't so much about dating a non-neurotypical person as it is dating *anyone* and living with them.)

They know how to live with each other already, and that's likely going to be a HUGE plus for them in the future. But this is the time for courtship, which greatly includes the anticipation of the next time they get to see each other... and that little "tug" of missing someone which fuels the anticipation all over again.

You start by seeing a person (socially) a day or two a week; if things go well, that time increases... you spend a whole day together, then a whole weekend... it's about increments, and the revelations that come from an increase in increments. If you're living together from the start of coupledom, there's no "buildup".

To put in Shaun's terms? I feel like it's "cutting when you should have peeled."

Does that make sense? I hope it makes sense.

Allan Verissimo said...

About "that" first time for Shaun and Lea, I have two possibilities: the first is that Shore can make an exception to this "first time", devoting an episode for both of them crossing the barrier of "Well, that's awkward" (because this can be quite different from the first kiss, especially when the person is your best friend)... Or Shore could choose start the season with the first scene of them waking up together in the same bed, already establishing for the viewer the current situation of the couple.

I also think that Season 4 is the perfect opportunity for us to finally meet Lea's family, especially the brother who is not on good terms with her, as revealed to us in Season 2. I also agree that an episode with the same narrative structure of the road trip in "Islands" and "Friends and Family" would be perfect for the occasion.

I think it would be interesting to see Shaun trying to do everything to make an good impression with Lea's family. At the same time, I wonder how Lea's family would react to Shaun: if Lea commented about him to them, if they think he is very different from the generic musicians ex-boyfriends that Lea had in the past, if they are curious about why she is trying for the first time to have a serious relationship (assuming this is the first time, of course) and why exactly with Shaun, etc. Anyway, I hope to see Lea's family someday: she and Lim are the only characters whose family members have yet to appear on the series.

I found the mention of episode 3.03 "Claire" interesting: that was the first time the series made an episode clearly devoted to a character other than Shaun: as far as I can remember, Claire appears in every scene of the episode, and the entire plot, including Shaun's scenes, are seen from her point of view. If there's another character who also deserved to have her own POV episode, it's Lea.

CosmicLightning113 said...

Shaun's devotion to his job overshadowing his relationship with Lea is something I hadn't thought of, that never seemed to be an issue with them before nor was it an issue when he was with Carly. Honestly, I think the reverse is actually more likely to be true. That Shaun might neglect or slack on his resident duties at St. Bonvanture if it means getting to spend more time with Lea, especially in the first few episodes while they're both still in the Honeymoon Phase. The events of 1.12, 3.18, and 3.19 all prove that Shaun is willing to skip or ignore work at the hospital when it comes between him and Lea.

Is it possible that Lea might have to begrudgingly be the one to tell Shaun to slow down? Not because she doesn't like it, but because she knows the long term consequences he'll have to face if he doesn't take his residence more seriously. It could even turn into a whole arc for Shaun to have to learn how to balance his personal life and his career simultaneously. That wasn't an issue with Carly because their relationship was fairly casual and she worked so closely alongside him, that's not going to be the case with Lea. It'd be a really complicated situation for both of them to actually work to make their relationship less all-encompassing as opposed to more, and it would cover new ground we haven't seen before in the series yet... on the bright side, this is the perfect recipe for a lot of the aforementioned cute moments between them fans want to see. :P

Andreas has said multiple times that he thinks Season 4 is going to be more career centric to contrast season 3 (which was very relationship centric) which I agree with. The main focus should then be on the dynamics at St. Bonaventure and Lea working there means her relationship with Shaun can, and probably will, be deeply woven into those storylines.

Andreas said...

Thank you, Kelli, so this is more about slowly growing into the new role of romantic partners and having enough space to retreat temporarily in the process.

This reminds me of another aspect that we already touched here: Shaun’s different way of showing love – which is very typical for individuals with ASD – and its effects on Lea. Literature reports that such long-term relationships tend to wear out the neurotypical partner while the autistic individual flourishes.

Also, it is known that individuals on the spectrum may reduce their display of affection once they feel the relationship is established – simply because the frequent reiteration of the obvious or known facts seems superfluous to them.

Lea will have to put extra effort into this relationship by remembering Shaun’s shortcomings in relation to her needs and compensating for it. She might be in more need of a support system in season 4 than Shaun, and as we all know, Lea is the type of finds boyfriends more than friends.

Thus, the other BV-ites might come back into focus in a different capacity than before. While Shaun has learned not to “kiss and tell” recently (3.15) and might be less dependent on advice from his workmates now, what will be Lea’s stance with them at the beginning of season 4? They all got involuntarily involved in Shaun and Lea’s rocky road to Kiss #3 – and they all know Shaun’s version of the events only. Lea’s sudden 180 after the earthquake might even strengthen her flaky image with the others and this might be a major source of character conflict in the early season. Lea is very much an outsider to the hospital. She isn’t a medical professional; she’s a new arrival and she has a bad reputation preceding her. I very well could see Lea feeling cornered in the first couple episodes.

Andreas said...

>>Shaun's devotion to his job overshadowing his relationship with Lea is something I hadn't thought of, that never seemed to be an issue with them before nor was it an issue when he was with Carly.<<

CosmigLightning113, it was very much an ongoing issue. Shaun has not listened to or walked out on Lea and Carly often enough because he was focused on a medical problem. And it took its toll on both women, although Lea seemed much more accustomed to it than Carly. Just a short collection of relevant scenes:

3.2 Debts: Shaun is looking frantically for a medical solution and wants Lea to shut up, who wants to discuss his date with Carly. Then Carly shows up and he almost turns her down, too. After a short walk with Carly, he flees the scene because he has found the solution – while Carly was talking! Obviously, he was not listening.

3.14 Influence: Shaun declines lunch with Carly because he has “too much to do”, later he does not listen to Lea’s self-doubts at lunch. He just takes with him to get her a job interview with Glassman.

3.15 Unsaid: While having dinner with Carly, he gets aggravated because he feels helpless for the mute boy and locks himself in his room. For the same reason he does not listen to Lea who is complaining about Glassy at breakfast the next day and flees the scene again when an idea strikes him.

Andreas said...

A Lea-centered episode is a compelling idea, not just for the reasons you mentioned, Allan.

While Claire and Morgan’s episodes provided a different POV than usual, they are both still medical staff. We’ve come to know the medical procedures and the hospital politics, but Lea’s POV would provide a look at St. Bonaventure we never got before: the techs and administrative workers that keep the place running.

While this kind of work is quite essential, Lea is not burdened with live-or-death decisions such as Shaun - another difference between these two with potential for a story.

CosmicLightning113 said...

Andreas! Our designated ASD expert. Always nice to hear some thoughts from you. :D

He did walk out on Lea a lot in the middle of their conversations, that's true. As you mention however she did seem very accustomed to it, almost strikingly so. That's probably why it didn't make as much of an impression of me as the instances where the opposite occurred. The difference between those is that while Lea seems very patient towards Shaun absent mindedness the hospital, likewise, doesn't share her compassion, and Shaun's neglecting of his duties at St. Bonaventure and orders from direct superiors has been highlighted much more in the recent episodes than vice versa.

Maybe this is simply a reflection of what was going on at the time, since he was in the process of trying to "win" Lea over and therefore St. Bonaventure was expendable? That's possible, and if his position is threatened once again it's also possible we could see a paradigm shift in that regard. But nonetheless, I do think it's necessary to note that a possible Shea roadblock in the future might involve Shaun struggling to balance his work life with his personal life, especially if he feels more confident in the security of his position at the hospital over his relationship with Lea.

Both scenarios could also happen at different times in Season 4. The beginning has Shaun focusing more on Lea than the hospital which causes problems at work, only for him to eventually return to normal (possibly by Lea's advice) and after awhile she gets worn down by it, as your studies have shown often happens in relationships between ASDs and Neurotypicals.

Andreas said...

Ahw… flattery and ASD don’t do well together! ;) So, right to the topic at hand: true, Shaun even defied direct orders in the finale. And the only reason he could do so without serious consequences was probably that no other than Lim is at the helm right now.

But still, Shaun’s lack of reciprocity is a established pattern and the reason that Lea did took it so well was that she was confronted with it while being platonic friends. Yet, it had a visible effect on her: she either reacted by mocking him (3.2/3.15 “Michelle Obama in Seal Team Six”) or by stress-eating (3.14/15).

And I also might propose that this behavior of Shaun was what prompted her to stress her own neediness in 3.16 – because she might have tolerated that as a friend, but with them being in a romantic relationship, Shaun attending to Lea’s needs becomes way more important.

But you are right, CosmicLightning113, achieving a proper work-life-balance will be problem either way. Lim’s approach is to accommodate Shaun as much as she can justify it. But with Andrews challenging her ideas continuously and the end of the residency approaching, things might get a little more tense for Shaun.

Anonymous said...

Hi everyone! I'm so glad I found this blog! Shame I didnt find it earlier as I'm a big fan of Shea from the UK and desperate to discuss everything that went on in the last season!

I also think, like a lot of you, the situation regarding living arrangements will most likely be an early topic covered in season 4. I can see Shaun not understanding why Lea wont move back straight away. He was quick to move her out on Carly's say so though and Lea might not take too kindly to being expected to again up sticks!

A member of Lea's family coming to visit is a great idea and maybe could end up in the hospital as Shaun's patient through an accident or illness whilst visiting. Lea would have to deal with Shaun in his professional capacity as well as being his girlfriend and related to the patient.

I hope there isn't a lot of comparisons made with Carly but I can maybe see Shaun saying things that Carly liked etc and Lea not liking it and who would blame her? No one likes comparisons with the ex!

As a Brit I'm not too familiar with the US system regarding residency. Are the residents likely to supervise medical students as they get more senior? I can imagine Shaun being quite strict with students expecting them to get things exactly right and this causing conflict.

Lots to discuss in the future and I'm expecting quite a long wait for season 4 unfortunately. They have just restarted filming soaps here but with lots of restrictions and weird camera angles to get round the social distancing rules. Really hope things can get back to normal soon.

Kelli Lawrence said...

Gotta jump on again and say HI to my new commenters!

Allan-- Welcome! Yeah, I'm with you on wondering just what Lea's family will make of Shaun, and how much tact they'd (not) use... but on the other hand, Lea's shown an openness to him from the start (obviously) and she's gotta be *someone* in the family who shares that quality... I hope?

As for an episode that's all-Lea a la 3.3 "Claire"... I'm SO in! I really hope they're considering it.

ANONYMOUS from the U.K., welcome! I'm glad you found us too! I've been posting about #Shea since January, so you might find some earlier content of interest! (Especially the comments on said posts!)

On Lea moving back in-- I think it'd be kind of awesome, actually, to get a little delayed angst from Lea ("I JUST got my new place the way I wanted after you asked me to leave on, like, NO notice")...it'd be a nice nod to fans like me who were livid over how quickly all that happened (as you'll see if you come across my rant of a blog post). I don't know that the writers would go that route-- they'll have plenty of material without it when it comes to the issue of her moving back in-- but it'd be fun.

Definitely an interesting idea to have a Dilallo visiting Lea and then have Shaun treating them in a medical emergency! One advantage to having a Dilallo visit Lea (rather than vice versa) is that the writers might not want to subject Shaun to meeting all the key players in Lea's world at the same time... sending just one or two out to San Jose might be more of the toe-in-the-water that Shaun would find more manageable.

As for Carly, I too have wondered how much they'd reference her in coming episodes (if at all). But it seems it would be very much in step with Shaun's character to make some "comparison" comments about Carly... delivered matter-of-factly... that could ruffle some Lea feathers. Especially if they are bedroom-related (yikes). Again, don't know that the writers would go that way or not; it might mislead some to think Shaun wants Carly back when, to him, he's just giving voice to observations. Until Lea speaks up, that is :)

Kelli Lawrence said...

SPEAKING OF LEA... (This comment is for any of you that are on Twitter)

I'm trying to get a thread going on Twitter about the dream cast for Lea's family! If you'd like to chime in, please look for me (I'm @KLBSt8ofSk8) or look for my post under #TheGoodDoctor or #Shea.

OR, if you're not on Twitter and want to chime in anyway, do it here-!

BUT if you're on Twitter, please head over there... the visibility of #Shea fandom never hurts!

Tony said...

Not a Twitter person here. So I'll go ahead and chime in on this page.

For Lea's dad, I think about someone who we could potentially hate. After all, Lea doesn't seem to have positive relationships with the men in her life outside of Shaun (and before then, Grandpa Rod) - and I don't think that's just a "bad boyfriend" thing. We know of issues with her brother; no reason to think that Dad Dilallo couldn't have his own set of issues.

In such a case, I wouldn't mind seeing David Shore go back to the House well one more time. If it's someone we're supposed to hate, I say grab David Morse (who played antagonistic Detective Tritter in that series). He went toe-to-toe with Hugh Laurie for some intense moments on that series; no doubt he could do the same thing with Freddie and Paige in this series (and possibly even Richard Schiff, if Shaun sees the need to call in big-guns Glassman).

I think about Lea's automotive expertise, and her mentions of Grandpa Rod. What if he was Lea's MOTHER'S father? We don't know either way, but if so, how about Marisa Tomei as Lea's Mom? Such a mom in this scenario would have learned the car-building trade from her father, and would have assured daughter Lea that it's OK to do "guy' stuff. Also, a nice little throwback to My Cousin Vinny, an Oscar-winning role for Tomei who played an automotive expert that came through BIG!

Andreas said...

Oh dear! I still remember Detective Tritter vividly – which means David Morse knows how to deliver an antagonist who seems nice at first but rapidly transforms into a low-key nightmare. Good call Tony! ;)

Marisa Tomei is always a pleasure on screen. Her charisma is a really good match to Lea’s.

Kelli Lawrence said...

TONY!

I started the Twitter conversation by suggesting Marisa Tomei for Mom Dilallo!!!

We independently thought of the same actress!

Great Minds Think Alike!!!

She MUST play Lea's mom now. It is FATE.

I'm sure she could work it in. And I'm sure an Oscar-winner's asking fee is, um...

Anonymous said...

Hello, everyone!

You guys are the best bunch. It's so hard to find a fair and healthy discussion about The Good Doctor, about Shea, so I'm so glad I find this!

May I chime in on the moving back not moving back dilemma? Frankly, I don't see any problem with Lea immediately moving back to the apartment. It is their apartment in the first place, after all. I think it's more like technical issue if they gotta produce a new set for Lea's apartment. It's a hassle. Adding to that, I don't think Lea's current living situation is any good. So, story-wise, it's wise for him to suggest her to move back in and her to accept it.

Add to the point, I feel like Lea is in a new place. She is more at peace with herself and her life, which Shaun is definitely part of it. Before, she was so exasperated at Shaun's cutting her off or ignoring her monologues, after living together especially. She was not at all prejudiced, but she clearly didn't like that righteousness trait that Shaun has. It's almost like selfish trait that made me think was the biggest reason why she didn't want to jump into a relationship with him. She thinks they'd clash a lot, he'd be forced to become less forthcoming, which she absolutely hate, and one of them would end up resenting the other. However, after her world shook and shifted, literally, she was accepting Shaun fully.

The scene where Shaun said "Vera didn't die, so the promise doesn't count" really is showing that he still couldn't or didn't respond to her in the 'proper' way, but this time, she doesn't care anymore. She didn't hold her breath, she didn't roll her eyes, she didn't deep inhale, she didn't close her eyes. She just accepted her feelings for him and his feelings for her with a smile and saying "You make me more, Shaun."

At that moment, she didn't just finally see him, but she saw the two of them. Together. And it was a good thing for her, for him, and for the both of them. A new day. The start of good days.

So, I feel like Shaun's 'so-called' inability to tend to Lea's needs is not gonna be that big of a problem moving forward. Intimacy also wouldn't be a problem, seeing how much Shaun was enjoying intimacy with Carly once he's capable of it. I can only suspect, with Lea, it's going to be even more fiery and intense, yet lighter. Even when Shaun feels secured and maybe too comfortable in his relationship with Lea, I don't think he would intentionally decrease their intimacy level.

It makes me think, after 2 seasons of struggling internally, this couple will finally have to struggle with external factors of relationship dynamic now. Shaun's job is super demanding, especially now he's in his 4th year. Even though he wants more time with Lea, his job just simply won't let him. Other people, too, they don't like Lea. Aside from Claire, Park, and maybe Lim, they think it's a bad idea for Shaun to be with Lea. Also, I like the idea for us to see more of Dilallo fam coming. Those fam members will bring complications, surely. Last but not least, I also suspect that whoever the new additional cast to the hospital is going to bring higher stakes of conflicts. Both for Shaun's career and personal life with Lea. Strongly suspect jealousy to play a bit.

Internally, Lea still has a load of stuff to resolve. Like, her job. I gotta be honest, I hated Lea's working at the hospital. Aside from the basically being demoted, I used to love the fact they compartmentalizing the canon romance. Lea's being the outsider from the procedural was the most refreshing thing I've seen. However, no, I seriously hope for subtler arc involving other members of the hospital. Like the technicians, the orderlies, nurses, securities, admins, IT people, etc. We all know that Lea is buddy-buddy with everyone. Everyone seems to be on first-name basis with her. Including the hot firefighter Dan.

Anonymous said...

Did you guys notice that Shaun was actually good listener to Lea in season 1? Their conversation was flowing like water. She talked, he listened and waited, she asked, he answered. Wonder what went wrong. I understand from filming stand-point, the writers had to fit Lea's background in one episode in expositions, but season 2 and 3 Shaun just simply didn't stay long enough.

I also like to chime in my dream casts for the Dilallos.
For mama Dilallo, I'd love to see Vera Farmiga. I'm guessing I'm not alone
For daddy Dilallo, I've love to see Nestor Carbonell. He worked on the show.
For Donny, obviously Max Thieriot.
...is it too impossible? Yeah, I'd just love to see the reaction of all those Lea's haters who happen to be Bates Motel fans. Gotta be priceless.

For mama Dilallo, I think
- Allison Janney would really fit the role. I'd like to see a mean Mama Dilallo, though. A strict one at least.
- Tricia Helfer would make a very stuck-up evil Mama Dilallo.
oooohhhhhh
- Susanna Thompson!!!

For daddy D, I'm not really sure.. I draw blanks.. maybe Hugh Laurie, or David Morse, or James Denton

For Donny, I have several favorites:
- Iain DeCaesteker, if he could pull of good natural American accent,
- Jeff Ward, or Marc Bendavid, or Travis Milne, because they're just beautiful, definitely could play Paige's brother, or
- Anthony Lemke

Basically, I want to see more of a absolute disaster family rather than mixed-feelings or misunderstood family. It should makes sense as to why Lea is the way she is. A rebel, a flake, problems with self-esteem, and so on..

Thanks guys, now I have a new idea for my next fanfic involving the Dilallos. Imagine the Dilallos are not car family, but more like doctors family. It'd make sense if Lea and Donny were closer to Grandpa Rod than their own parents.

Andreas said...

Hey, I’m glad I’m not the only one who does not see Lea moving back in as a big problem! :) Now, we shall wait to see the writers’ stance on that…

Considering external factors influencing their relationship, Shaun’s workload is something to reckon with. But of course, the other BV-ites are story-wise the most interesting. Which brings me to why I appreciate Lea working at St. Bonaventure now, but her not being medical staff.

I really enjoyed how Shaun and Lea’s scenes in the first two seasons covered Shaun’s time off-work. The lead got a private life by this, separate to his workplace. And I always found it refreshing that his love interest was no fellow doctor as in so many other medical dramas.

But then, to flesh out Lea’s character more, she must interact with others than Shaun and Glassman eventually. So, bringing her into the hospital is still the best solution without expanding the regular cast. For casual viewers, who don’t watch every episode multiple times as we do, the number of serious regulars must remain small or the get lost easily.

The Dilallos a family of doctors with Grandpa Rod and Lea the outcasts? Huh, that would be a twist … I wonder how Morgan would react to this news? Envying Lea or hating her even more? ;)

Tony said...

Are you kidding me, Kelli?!?!?!? That's AWESOME! I LOVE it when independent trains of thought roll into the same station!

I also like the suggestions above regarding Bates Motel reunions. After directing two TGD episodes already ("Apple" and "Mutations" - I like one of these more than the other), Nestor would be a very welcome on-screen addition!

However it shakes out, I hope that the end result is more audience sympathy for Lea, particularly from those that may not be fans now but remain open-minded. In all likelihood, that probably means a good amount of chaos and dysfunction - and also some Lea tears.

Just to clarify my earlier point about the moving-back-in: even though I advocate that they take their time, I don't think it's a BAD thing if they move in sooner. Just as long as the show portrays it as a thought-out decision and not just a reaction. Either way, I don't envision many among Shea fans.

Another interesting thought moving forward, is that the other characters might not necessarily be as anti-Lea as some of us are fearing. As long as they can see that the feelings AND commitment are true, I think they'll either back off, remain neutral, or offer support as needed. And best-case scenario, they'll try to take CREDIT for Shaun & Lea coming together:
- Claire, who offered Shaun some key friendship-building pointers early on;
- Park, for suggesting that Shaun "go big" that lead Shaun to eventually go "bigger" with the apartment rental;
- Morgan, for challenging Shaun every step of the way and solidifying his position;
- Lim, for everything with the walkie-talkies (even if that wasn't the primary reason for them);
- Andrews, for explaining that his long-time love had led to his heart beating "not quite in the same way" (i.e. not literally racing); and
- Glassman, for doing SO MANY THINGS that resulted in key Shaun & Lea moments - starting with the impetus for their Season 1 road trip!

Tony said...

I wish there was an edit button! My last sentence in the moving-back in paragraph should be: Either way, I don't envision many fights among Shea fans.

CosmicLightning113 said...

lol It's ironic you're all talking about fancasting the Dilallo family since I recently casted her brother, Donny, in my Fanfiction.

My choice: Jake Johnsnon, or as some of you might know him Nick Miller from New Girl. Not only do I think he physically resembles Paige Spara enough to look like her older brother (brown hair, hazel eyes, tan skin, attractive, etc), but his attitude as Nick Miller kinda reminds me of how a meaner, older, more jaded version of Lea. Same dry/witty sense of humor, low self esteem, ambiguous ADHD, etc but he's a lot more stubborn and cynical consistent with how Donny was described in 2.06 "Hubert".

He's a series regular on another ABC show called Stumptown so it's unlikely Johnson could ever have a recurring role on The Good Doctor, but if it's just a one shot where we meet Lea's family, he's my choice for Donny.

Andreas said...

The Good Doctor was always more character- than plot-driven. Breeze’s death or the earthquake are the mere exceptions of outside forces changing the course of events. Usually the characters’ personality traits and desires drive the plot forward.

Thus, the other BV-ites taking credit for making Shea happen is a reasonable course. Yet, I wonder how far this would carry the plot. Nevertheless, too much harmony kills the purpose of the show! ;)

Thinking forward, I would guess, Claire, Morgan and the rest being smug about their role in this might be a little unnerving for Lea, who is not used to them meddling with her affairs as Shaun is.

But speaking of outside forces again, we haven’t considered yet the influence of the Covid-19 crisis on Shea, yet. Based on my personal observations of friends of mine, social distancing and #StayAtHome might even deepen Shaun and Lea’s bond simply because she has nobody else to turn to in this trying times.

Kelli Lawrence said...

Oh boy, I guess we have more than one Anonymous here...
WELCOME ALL ANONYMOUS COMMENTERS! (Blanket statement)

I may do a separate post just about all the Dilallo casting possibilities! Thanks for so many names!

CosmicLightning113, Andreas mentioned your Jake Johnson suggestion to me on Twitter so I RT'd it :) Will probably do the same with the other suggestions.

Angelica said...

Kelli, thank you for bringing up the subject of Lea's family. While I know that Lea's father was around for some lakehouse shenanigans, for some reason I'd entertained the idea that Lea's mother had died while she was very young. I may be way off base to say this but I thought it might make sense if some of her character traits were attributed to a complete lack of female support in the early stages of her development.

However, with the ultimate fan casting of someone like Marisa Tomei as Lea's mother, I realize that the writers could have a lot of fun with this. So, it would definitely be a missed opportunity if we didn't get to see a mother/daughter dynamic play out on screen. So, I appreciate everyone's excellent suggestions. You've definitely jumpstarted my imagination. And to the person who made that fun, yet sinister, Bates Motel submission, my kudos. There has to be an alt universe in which Nestor Carbonell and Freddie Highmore play something other than mortal enemies. It would really be a trip if this was it.

And another thing, I believe that Andreas was right. This IS a character driven show. And so far, familial bonds - or the lack there of- have proven to be a defining aspect in the lives of these doctors. In fact, their disfunctional childhoods seem to account for some of their worst character flaws. Which seems to illustrate how debilitating the "sins of father" can be on a child. Yet, one of the things that I find most compelling about these flawed characters is that they're in the process of bucking the negative aspects of their lives - while holding fast to the good - in an effort to turn their circumstances around and save people. Including themselves.

With that said, I'm with the rest of you. And thanks to all of your ideas, I can't imagine a better way to see what makes Lea tick than to be introduced to her family. And maybe, just maybe, TPTB will deliver in accordance with their precedent. No doubt, if they were to do this it would earn Lea some love, much as it did for Morgan. Speaking of which, though I love the idea of them being frenemies, could Lea possibly bond with Morgan as they commiserate over similar experiences with their respective mothers?

Andreas said...

Good Lord, the writers better keep all of Lea’s family members alive! We had enough dead parents in season 3 already. ;)

Morgan and Lea becoming frenemies is as compelling concept because Morgan’s character works best at this. Her relationship development with Claire since 2.12 Aftermath was a great joy to watch. Though, I hope the writers restrain themselves from reiterating this arc too closely.

I see another possible character-driven plot involving Morgan who already compared her situation with Shaun’s to Glassman. With her hands damaged permanently, the writers would have her in a position with obvious parallels to Shaun’s bumpy start at St. Bonaventure: she’s impaired now, too, and has to prove (amongst others to herself) that she still is a capable doctor and an asset to hospital.
Yet, other than Shaun, Morgan’s impairment would be physical instead of mental, and she wasn’t born that way, but acquired the condition only recently – which means Morgan, proud, stubborn and competitive as she is, might have great difficulties to accommodate to her new situation.

Morgan might be inclined to lean closer to the other impaired resident – Shaun – to find some support and guidance. And while she sure has no romantic intentions with him, it might unnerve Lea a great deal just for Morgan being Morgan… ;) And Shaun might be on alert, too, because he has not the best opinion of her either. A triangle of mistrust instead of the dreaded love triangle, fueled only by established character traits and enough to run half of a season.

Faghost said...

oh, I missed a lot of fun conversations...

Another perfect post, Kelli! I kinda hate myself that I missed this.

Great dream/fan cast guys! Some of the names on my list have already been mentioned, it's so cool. I love that dark thought on having all the stars from Bates Motel and House to come over and play as Lea's family. Although, I'm championing Calista Flockhart to play Lea's mum, or Kelly Rutherford. And because I nominated Kelly, I also nominate Matthew Settle to play Lea's dad.

One thing I have in mind for future SHEA is their next karaoke song. Don't Go Breaking My Heart, Elton John.

I seriously can't predict where Shore will take us next...
- I'm still cheering on the possibility of Claire and Morgan romantic stylez,
- and that possible chaos of a new trio Glassy, Lea, Morgan,
- hoping that Lea will bond with Debbie or someone (please!) anyone, really,
- that our couple will have serious discussion about the goddamn baseball bat,
- they might have problem about whether Lea should move back in, but it will be resolved very quickly and Lea will move back in.
- no on/off relationship for SHEA.

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